Discussion:
Troubling Question For An Atheist
(too old to reply)
HVAC
2009-01-07 12:53:35 UTC
Permalink
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang? Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything? What caused the big bang?

Are we just a firecracker that went off in the night?

My atheistic friends invariably answer 1or 2 ways. The ever popular
"the big bang WAS the beginning, and we can't know anything before
it".

This leaves the curious part of my mind cold... What? We aren't even
ALLOWED
to ask this question? If it's the 'clowniverse', where it's a big
bang followed trillions
of years later by a big crunch, then what started THAT? If it's the
'monkeyverse', or
and infinite number of universes..... What started THAT?

I've read many, many books on the subject. They have no answer for me
either.
The best answer I've gotten has been (paraphrased), (quantum tunneling
through
a scalar field caused the big bang". Well, that doesn't get my dick
hard either.

Now, I still don't believe in god. The reason? Because the 'god
squad' knows nothing
either. They take the easy way out and just chalk it all up to
'god'. That's no better, and
no worse that the 'flying spaggetti monster' answer.

Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
duke
2009-01-07 13:01:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang? Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything? What caused the big bang?
Are we just a firecracker that went off in the night?
My atheistic friends invariably answer 1or 2 ways. The ever popular
"the big bang WAS the beginning, and we can't know anything before
it".
This leaves the curious part of my mind cold... What? We aren't even
ALLOWED
to ask this question? If it's the 'clowniverse', where it's a big
bang followed trillions
of years later by a big crunch, then what started THAT? If it's the
'monkeyverse', or
and infinite number of universes..... What started THAT?
I've read many, many books on the subject. They have no answer for me
either.
The best answer I've gotten has been (paraphrased), (quantum tunneling
through
a scalar field caused the big bang". Well, that doesn't get my dick
hard either.
Now, I still don't believe in god. The reason? Because the 'god
squad' knows nothing
either. They take the easy way out and just chalk it all up to
'god'. That's no better, and
no worse that the 'flying spaggetti monster' answer.
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
Which is why we say we "believe" basis the evidence.

The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
HVAC
2009-01-07 13:21:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
Now, I still don't believe in god. The reason? Because the 'god
squad' knows nothing
either. They take the easy way out and just chalk it all up to
'god'. That's no better, and
no worse that the 'flying spaggetti monster' answer.
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
Which is why we say we "believe" basis the evidence.
Well Duke, you're just an idiot. Anything that YOU say
must be taken with a grain of woo-woo salt.

To 'believe' in something based upon a lack of knowledge
is just plain stupid.
--
Religion is the dreadful realization that someone, somewhere is having fun
John Baker
2009-01-07 13:51:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
Now, I still don't believe in god. The reason? Because the 'god
squad' knows nothing
either. They take the easy way out and just chalk it all up to
'god'. That's no better, and
no worse that the 'flying spaggetti monster' answer.
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
Which is why we say we "believe" basis the evidence.
Well Duke, you're just an idiot. Anything that YOU say
must be taken with a grain of woo-woo salt.
To 'believe' in something based upon a lack of knowledge
is just plain stupid.
That's our Dookie. Dumb as a government mule, and twice as stubborn.
duke
2009-01-08 13:18:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
Now, I still don't believe in god. The reason? Because the 'god
squad' knows nothing
either. They take the easy way out and just chalk it all up to
'god'. That's no better, and
no worse that the 'flying spaggetti monster' answer.
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
Which is why we say we "believe" basis the evidence.
Well Duke, you're just an idiot. Anything that YOU say
must be taken with a grain of woo-woo salt.
I have all the evidence.
Post by HVAC
To 'believe' in something based upon a lack of knowledge
is just plain stupid.
Then how do you profess to be an atheist wannabe?

The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Steve O
2009-01-08 15:04:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
Now, I still don't believe in god. The reason? Because the 'god
squad' knows nothing
either. They take the easy way out and just chalk it all up to
'god'. That's no better, and
no worse that the 'flying spaggetti monster' answer.
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
Which is why we say we "believe" basis the evidence.
Well Duke, you're just an idiot. Anything that YOU say
must be taken with a grain of woo-woo salt.
I have all the evidence.
That's what Terry said before he disappeared without providing any...
Why haven't you disappeared yet?
--
Steve O
a.a. #2240
B.A.A.W.A.
Convicted by Earthquack
Exempt from purgatory by Papal Indulgence
duke
2009-01-08 17:07:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve O
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
Now, I still don't believe in god. The reason? Because the 'god
squad' knows nothing
either. They take the easy way out and just chalk it all up to
'god'. That's no better, and
no worse that the 'flying spaggetti monster' answer.
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
Which is why we say we "believe" basis the evidence.
Well Duke, you're just an idiot. Anything that YOU say
must be taken with a grain of woo-woo salt.
I have all the evidence.
That's what Terry said before he disappeared without providing any...
No, he said he doesn't have a clue. Try again. I, otoh, have clues galore.
Post by Steve O
Why haven't you disappeared yet?
Boogie, boogie, boo.


The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Steve O
2009-01-08 17:36:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by Steve O
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
Now, I still don't believe in god. The reason? Because the 'god
squad' knows nothing
either. They take the easy way out and just chalk it all up to
'god'. That's no better, and
no worse that the 'flying spaggetti monster' answer.
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
Which is why we say we "believe" basis the evidence.
Well Duke, you're just an idiot. Anything that YOU say
must be taken with a grain of woo-woo salt.
I have all the evidence.
That's what Terry said before he disappeared without providing any...
No, he said he doesn't have a clue.
Wrong again, initially, he claimed he had evidence.
It was only afterwards that he fimnally admitted he didn't have a clue.
Perhaps you could try extending the same courtesy, instead of waffling about
non existant evidence.
Post by duke
Try again. I, otoh, have clues galore.
As I've said before, if you were dressed in a clue suit dowsed in clue musk
and were dancing a clue mating dance in a clue field at the height of clue
mating season, you still wouldn't get a clue.
--
Steve O
a.a. #2240
B.A.A.W.A.
Convicted by Earthquack
Exempt from purgatory by Papal Indulgence
duke
2009-01-10 13:26:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve O
Post by duke
Post by Steve O
Post by duke
I have all the evidence.
That's what Terry said before he disappeared without providing any...
No, he said he doesn't have a clue.
Wrong again, initially, he claimed he had evidence.
But he didn't.
Post by Steve O
It was only afterwards that he fimnally admitted he didn't have a clue.
Haahaahaahaahaa.
Post by Steve O
Perhaps you could try extending the same courtesy, instead of waffling about
non existant evidence.
I have all the evidence.
Post by Steve O
Post by duke
Try again. I, otoh, have clues galore.
As I've said before, if you were dressed in a clue suit dowsed in clue musk
and were dancing a clue mating dance in a clue field at the height of clue
mating season, you still wouldn't get a clue.
Pretty weak, so.

The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

HVAC
2009-01-08 16:51:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
Well Duke, you're just an idiot. Anything that YOU say
must be taken with a grain of woo-woo salt.
I have all the evidence.
You're a liar.
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
To 'believe' in something based upon a lack of knowledge
is just plain stupid.
Then how do you profess to be an atheist wannabe?
I *profess* to be nothing more that a seeker.
I am a man who seeks the truth based solely on
the evidence around me. I have no agenda, no
axe to grind. YOU, on the other hand, are a believer.
That's someone who just blindly accepts what he
is told to believe. Questioning the status quo is not
allowed for believers like you.

My mind is free, yours is forever trapped in superstition.
duke
2009-01-08 17:11:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
Well Duke, you're just an idiot. Anything that YOU say
must be taken with a grain of woo-woo salt.
I have all the evidence.
You're a liar.
Nope - every bit of evidence for and against the existence is 100% in favor of
his existing. You have nothing.............NOTHING to support your silly notion
that God doesn't exist.
Post by HVAC
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
To 'believe' in something based upon a lack of knowledge
is just plain stupid.
Then how do you profess to be an atheist wannabe?
I *profess* to be nothing more that a seeker.
No, you're a denier, a rejecter. You're not a seeker.
Post by HVAC
I am a man who seeks the truth based solely on
the evidence around me.
And 100% of the evidence to be found favors God's existence.
Post by HVAC
I have no agenda, no
axe to grind.
But you do reject ALL the evidence.
Post by HVAC
YOU, on the other hand, are a believer.
That's someone who just blindly accepts what he
is told to believe. Questioning the status quo is not
allowed for believers like you.
All the evidence is on my side.
Post by HVAC
My mind is free, yours is forever trapped in superstition.
You are blind to the evidence.


The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Steve O
2009-01-08 17:32:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
Well Duke, you're just an idiot. Anything that YOU say
must be taken with a grain of woo-woo salt.
I have all the evidence.
You're a liar.
Nope - every bit of evidence for and against the existence is 100% in favor of
his existing.
It's a pity you're still barred from TQOTM, this one's a beaut.
Every bit of evidence for and AGAINST???
What an idiot.
Post by duke
You have nothing.............NOTHING to support your silly notion
that God doesn't exist.
Nothing, except reality, of course.
--
Steve O
a.a. #2240
B.A.A.W.A.
Convicted by Earthquack
Exempt from purgatory by Papal Indulgence
HVAC
2009-01-08 18:40:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve O
It's a pity you're still barred from TQOTM, this one's a beaut.
Let's see... Duke...TQOTM? The Queer Of The Month?
duke
2009-01-08 21:17:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve O
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
Well Duke, you're just an idiot. Anything that YOU say
must be taken with a grain of woo-woo salt.
I have all the evidence.
You're a liar.
Nope - every bit of evidence for and against the existence is 100% in
favor of his existing.
It's a pity you're still barred from TQOTM, this one's a beaut.
Every bit of evidence for and AGAINST???
What an idiot.
Ok, now slow down and read it again - "100% in favor of his existing".
Post by Steve O
Post by duke
You have nothing.............NOTHING to support your silly notion
that God doesn't exist.
Nothing, except reality, of course.
Name that reality in 5 musical notes or less.

The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Steve O
2009-01-08 22:29:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by Steve O
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
Well Duke, you're just an idiot. Anything that YOU say
must be taken with a grain of woo-woo salt.
I have all the evidence.
You're a liar.
Nope - every bit of evidence for and against the existence is 100% in
favor of his existing.
It's a pity you're still barred from TQOTM, this one's a beaut.
Every bit of evidence for and AGAINST???
What an idiot.
Ok, now slow down and read it again - "100% in favor of his existing".
Exactly, your claim is that every bit of evidence for and AGAINST the
existence is 100% in favour of his existing.
So tell me again, how can evidence which is AGAINST God's existence be 100%
in favour of him existing??
Try English for a change.
Post by duke
Post by Steve O
Post by duke
You have nothing.............NOTHING to support your silly notion
that God doesn't exist.
Nothing, except reality, of course.
Name that reality in 5 musical notes or less.
Look around you...
Yup, that's reality, and not a single trace of your silly tribal thunder and
lightning fantasy figure.
--
Steve O
a.a. #2240
B.A.A.W.A.
Convicted by Earthquack
Exempt from purgatory by Papal Indulgence
duke
2009-01-09 17:21:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve O
Post by duke
Post by Steve O
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
Well Duke, you're just an idiot. Anything that YOU say
must be taken with a grain of woo-woo salt.
I have all the evidence.
You're a liar.
Nope - every bit of evidence for and against the existence is 100% in
favor of his existing.
It's a pity you're still barred from TQOTM, this one's a beaut.
Every bit of evidence for and AGAINST???
What an idiot.
Ok, now slow down and read it again - "100% in favor of his existing".
Exactly, your claim is that every bit of evidence for and AGAINST the
existence is 100% in favour of his existing.
So tell me again, how can evidence which is AGAINST God's existence be 100%
in favour of him existing??
Try English for a change.
Nah, it's pretty clear you can't comprehend English.

The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Lord Vetinari
2009-01-09 22:24:46 UTC
Permalink
"duke" <***@cox.net> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
: > On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 22:29:56 -0000, "Steve O" <***@herethanks.com>
wrote:
[snip]
: >>Try English for a change.
: >
: > Nah, it's pretty clear you can't comprehend English.

That's really funny, coming from you. Now, show us how well you comprehend
that.
HVAC
2009-01-08 18:39:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
You're a liar.
Nope - every bit of evidence for and against the existence is 100% in favor of
his existing. You have nothing.............NOTHING to support your silly notion
that God doesn't exist.
Again you lie.
I have EXACTLY as much evidence for the existence
of god, that I do for the existence of tinkerbelle.

Now why don't you get on your knees and start praying to tinkerbelle?
BWAHAHAhahahaha! God!! That's fucking funny!
duke
2009-01-08 21:19:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
You're a liar.
Nope - every bit of evidence for and against the existence is 100% in favor of
his existing. You have nothing.............NOTHING to support your silly notion
that God doesn't exist.
Again you lie.
I have EXACTLY as much evidence for the existence
of god, that I do for the existence of tinkerbelle.
For some reason I believe you.
Post by HVAC
Now why don't you get on your knees and start praying to tinkerbelle?
BWAHAHAhahahaha! God!! That's fucking funny!
I'm going to nominate that for AQOTM.

The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Les Hellawell
2009-01-08 19:07:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
Well Duke, you're just an idiot. Anything that YOU say
must be taken with a grain of woo-woo salt.
I have all the evidence.
You're a liar.
Nope he was telling the truth. What he did not tell you
was the extent of that evidence.
Post by HVAC
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
To 'believe' in something based upon a lack of knowledge
is just plain stupid.
Then how do you profess to be an atheist wannabe?
I *profess* to be nothing more that a seeker.
I am a man who seeks the truth based solely on
the evidence around me. I have no agenda, no
axe to grind. YOU, on the other hand, are a believer.
That's someone who just blindly accepts what he
is told to believe. Questioning the status quo is not
allowed for believers like you.
My mind is free, yours is forever trapped in superstition.
And there are few religions more superstitious than
Roman Catholicism. Pure unashamed ignorance

--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
HVAC
2009-01-08 20:21:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Les Hellawell
Post by HVAC
My mind is free, yours is forever trapped in superstition.
And there are few religions more superstitious than
Roman Catholicism. Pure unashamed ignorance
Ever talk to a mormin?
Steve O
2009-01-08 22:25:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
Post by Les Hellawell
Post by HVAC
My mind is free, yours is forever trapped in superstition.
And there are few religions more superstitious than
Roman Catholicism. Pure unashamed ignorance
Ever talk to a mormin?
It's a tough call, but I'd have to go for Mormon.
--
Steve O
a.a. #2240
B.A.A.W.A.
Convicted by Earthquack
Exempt from purgatory by Papal Indulgence
Country Bumpkin Tom
2009-01-09 12:09:52 UTC
Permalink
It's a matter of faith. Nothing has been proven as to the beginning of
the world. The bible is just a collection of gobbley goop in reality
and can be interpreted many ways by many people and nobody can veritfy
any of it. That's why we call it faith and belief. Your's is as good
as mine. No more no less! A lot of the bible is rubbish to many. It's
cafeteria style for me, I take what I want and leave the rest.
duke
2009-01-08 21:21:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Les Hellawell
Post by HVAC
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
Well Duke, you're just an idiot. Anything that YOU say
must be taken with a grain of woo-woo salt.
I have all the evidence.
You're a liar.
Nope he was telling the truth. What he did not tell you
was the extent of that evidence.
Always the same guaranteed and unquestionable evidence - the big bang.
Post by Les Hellawell
Post by HVAC
My mind is free, yours is forever trapped in superstition.
And there are few religions more superstitious than
Roman Catholicism.
Really! Name one.

The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Yap
2009-01-08 07:52:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang?  Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything?  What caused the big bang?
Are we just a firecracker that went off in the night?
My atheistic friends invariably answer 1or 2 ways. The ever popular
"the big bang WAS the beginning, and we can't know anything before
it".
This leaves the curious part of my mind cold... What? We aren't even
ALLOWED
to ask this question?  If it's the 'clowniverse', where it's a big
bang followed trillions
of years later by a big crunch, then what started THAT?  If it's the
'monkeyverse', or
and infinite number of universes..... What started THAT?
I've read many, many books on the subject. They have no answer for me
either.
The best answer I've gotten has been (paraphrased), (quantum tunneling
through
a scalar field caused the big bang".  Well, that doesn't get my dick
hard either.
Now, I still don't believe in god. The reason?  Because the 'god
squad' knows nothing
either.  They take the easy way out and just chalk it all up to
'god'.  That's no better, and
no worse that the 'flying spaggetti monster' answer.
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
Which is why we say we "believe" basis the evidence.
Why don't you start to believe that you have food in your stomach
forever....and don't need your usual 3meals?
And if you have the true faith, your god is going to save you anyway,
right?
Post by duke
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
duke
2009-01-08 13:19:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yap
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
Which is why we say we "believe" basis the evidence.
Why don't you start to believe that you have food in your stomach
forever....and don't need your usual 3meals?
Like my belief in God, the evidence of the empty feeling in my stomach says I'm
hungry.

Thanks.

The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Iain
2009-01-07 14:18:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
I don't know.

But why would this question be especially troubling for an atheist?

Putting a beard on the big bang doesn't make it less of a mystery.
Saying 'god did it' just puts your chosen object of worship at the
beginning of time.

Why not 'a pencil did it'? Why something so specific as a god?
Post by HVAC
The big bang?  Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything?  What caused the big bang?
Are we just a firecracker that went off in the night?
My atheistic friends invariably answer 1or 2 ways. The ever popular
"the big bang WAS the beginning, and we can't know anything before
it".
This leaves the curious part of my mind cold... What? We aren't even
ALLOWED
to ask this question?
Of course you are. But don't just make up shit and call it gospel.

--Iain
duke
2009-01-08 13:21:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Iain
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
I don't know.
But why would this question be especially troubling for an atheist?
Putting a beard on the big bang doesn't make it less of a mystery.
Saying 'god did it' just puts your chosen object of worship at the
beginning of time.
Why not 'a pencil did it'? Why something so specific as a god?
It's not "as a god". It's specific "as a Supreme Creator, called God by name".

The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Kilmir
2009-01-07 14:33:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang?  Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything?  What caused the big bang?
Are we just a firecracker that went off in the night?
My atheistic friends invariably answer 1or 2 ways. The ever popular
"the big bang WAS the beginning, and we can't know anything before
it".
This leaves the curious part of my mind cold... What? We aren't even
ALLOWED
to ask this question?  If it's the 'clowniverse', where it's a big
bang followed trillions
of years later by a big crunch, then what started THAT?  If it's the
'monkeyverse', or
and infinite number of universes..... What started THAT?
I've read many, many books on the subject. They have no answer for me
either.
The best answer I've gotten has been (paraphrased), (quantum tunneling
through
a scalar field caused the big bang".  Well, that doesn't get my dick
hard either.
Now, I still don't believe in god. The reason?  Because the 'god
squad' knows nothing
either.  They take the easy way out and just chalk it all up to
'god'.  That's no better, and
no worse that the 'flying spaggetti monster' answer.
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
My current understanding is that a quantum event caused the big bang.
The big bang is pretty much nothingness splitting apart. As a result
the sum of all the forces in the universe together should be 0.
Currently if we add all known forces we come out negative, this
discrepancy is what is often refered to as "dark matter". It should be
around but we can't see it. Yet.

The initial quantum event pretty much "just happened". Also understand
that time itself started with the big bang so there is no "before" and
causality is actually a moot point in those circumstances. Warping
your head around subjects like those can be quite a challenge.

The main problem with the "start of it all" is not the event itself,
but understanding what it actually is you're asking.

To quote the famous Hitchickers Guide: the answer is 42. Now all you
need is the question.
HVAC
2009-01-07 15:04:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kilmir
My current understanding is that a quantum event caused the big bang.
Yes, yes...Quantum tunneling thorugh a singularity. So what started that?
Post by Kilmir
The big bang is pretty much nothingness splitting apart.
But what CAUSED it to happen?
Post by Kilmir
As a result
the sum of all the forces in the universe together should be 0.
That makes no sense.
The sum of all forces in the universe should be an infinite number.
Why? Because the singularity which 'banged', was infinitely dense,
and infinitely hot
Post by Kilmir
Currently if we add all known forces we come out negative, this
discrepancy is what is often refered to as "dark matter". It should be
around but we can't see it. Yet.
No. But we can perceive it. It has a gravitational factor which means it
exists.
Post by Kilmir
The initial quantum event pretty much "just happened".
Shit. That almost as bad as saying that god did it.
Post by Kilmir
Also understand
that time itself started with the big bang so there is no "before" and
causality is actually a moot point in those circumstances.
So we have a new theory to add to the 'monkeyverse' and the 'clowniverse'
The newly named 'shithappensiverse'. Lol.
Post by Kilmir
Warping your head around subjects like those can be quite a challenge.
As far as I am concerned this is THE penultimate question.
Post by Kilmir
The main problem with the "start of it all" is not the event itself,
but understanding what it actually is you're asking.
As Alan Guth asks, "What banged and what made it bang?"
Post by Kilmir
To quote the famous Hitchickers Guide: the answer is 42. Now all you
need is the question.
The question is the most simple and most complex question that I know.
Iain
2009-01-07 17:11:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
Post by Kilmir
My current understanding is that a quantum event caused the big bang.
Yes, yes...Quantum tunneling thorugh a singularity. So what started that?
Quantum mechanics involves causeless events. So it's
fair to suggest that nothing started it.

While we're on the subject, what caused a god? And if a god does not
need to have been caused, why must an initial quantum event need to
have been caused?
Post by HVAC
Post by Kilmir
The big bang is pretty much nothingness splitting apart.
But what CAUSED it to happen?
Perhaps nothing.

--Iain
Tim McGaughy
2009-01-07 17:36:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
Post by Kilmir
The initial quantum event pretty much "just happened".
Shit. That almost as bad as saying that god did it.
Saying "I don't know" is never as bad as pulling mythology out of your ass.
Post by HVAC
As far as I am concerned this is THE penultimate question.
Penultimate does not mean what you think it means.
HVAC
2009-01-07 18:20:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim McGaughy
Post by HVAC
Post by Kilmir
The initial quantum event pretty much "just happened".
Shit. That almost as bad as saying that god did it.
Saying "I don't know" is never as bad as pulling mythology out of your ass.
Ok. I don't know.
I *HATE* not knowing.
Post by Tim McGaughy
Post by HVAC
As far as I am concerned this is THE penultimate question.
Penultimate does not mean what you think it means.
Next to last?
Geode
2009-01-07 19:02:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
Post by Tim McGaughy
Post by HVAC
Post by Kilmir
The initial quantum event pretty much "just happened".
Shit. That almost as bad as saying that god did it.
Saying "I don't know" is never as bad as pulling mythology out of your ass.
Ok. I don't know.
I *HATE* not knowing.
then you are doomed.
You have to get used at your ignorance. We all have to get used at
that. It is very little what we can understand, even if we are great
fanatics of science.
leopoldo
Post by HVAC
Post by Tim McGaughy
Post by HVAC
As far as I am concerned this is THE penultimate question.
Penultimate does not mean what you think it means.
Next to last?
HVAC
2009-01-07 19:53:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geode
Post by HVAC
Ok. I don't know.
I *HATE* not knowing.
then you are doomed.
You have to get used at your ignorance. We all have to get used at
that. It is very little what we can understand, even if we are great
fanatics of science.
leopoldo
What's your first language?
Geode
2009-01-07 22:05:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
Post by Geode
Post by HVAC
Ok. I don't know.
I *HATE* not knowing.
then you are doomed.
You have to get used at your ignorance.  We all have to get used at
that.  It is very little what we can  understand, even if we are great
fanatics of science.
leopoldo
What's your first language?
spanish
Tim McGaughy
2009-01-07 23:36:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
Post by Tim McGaughy
Post by HVAC
Post by Kilmir
The initial quantum event pretty much "just happened".
Shit. That almost as bad as saying that god did it.
Saying "I don't know" is never as bad as pulling mythology out of your ass.
Ok. I don't know.
I *HATE* not knowing.
Post by Tim McGaughy
Post by HVAC
As far as I am concerned this is THE penultimate question.
Penultimate does not mean what you think it means.
Next to last?
Yes. Is that what you meant to say?

"As far as I am concerned this is THE next to last question"?
HVAC
2009-01-07 23:39:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim McGaughy
Post by HVAC
Post by Tim McGaughy
Penultimate does not mean what you think it means.
Next to last?
Yes. Is that what you meant to say?
Of course.
I *always* say what I mean. I am a wordsmith.
Yap
2009-01-08 07:58:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
Post by Tim McGaughy
Post by HVAC
Post by Kilmir
The initial quantum event pretty much "just happened".
Shit. That almost as bad as saying that god did it.
Saying "I don't know" is never as bad as pulling mythology out of your ass.
Ok. I don't know.
I *HATE* not knowing.
Every body hates not knowing.
But do you know what you are going to do next year? I mean
specifically each day?
So, what's your hate for?
Post by HVAC
Post by Tim McGaughy
Post by HVAC
As far as I am concerned this is THE penultimate question.
Penultimate does not mean what you think it means.
Next to last?
Geode
2009-01-07 18:53:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
Post by Kilmir
My current understanding is that a quantum event caused the big bang.
Yes, yes...Quantum tunneling thorugh a singularity. So what started that?
Post by Kilmir
The big bang is pretty much nothingness splitting apart.
But what CAUSED it to happen?
Post by Kilmir
As a result
the sum of all the forces in the universe together should be 0.
That makes no sense.
The sum of all forces in the universe should be an infinite number.
Why? Because the singularity which 'banged', was infinitely dense,
and infinitely hot
Post by Kilmir
Currently if we add all known forces we come out negative, this
discrepancy is what is often refered to as "dark matter". It should be
around but we can't see it. Yet.
No. But we can perceive it. It has a gravitational factor which means it
exists.
Post by Kilmir
The initial quantum event pretty much "just happened".
Shit. That almost as bad as saying that god did it.
Post by Kilmir
Also understand
that time itself started with the big bang so there is no "before" and
causality is actually a moot point in those circumstances.
So we have a new theory to add to the 'monkeyverse' and the 'clowniverse'
The newly named 'shithappensiverse'.  Lol.
Post by Kilmir
Warping your head around subjects like those can be quite a challenge.
As far as I am concerned this is THE penultimate question.
Post by Kilmir
The main problem with the "start of it all" is not the event itself,
but understanding what it actually is you're asking.
As Alan Guth asks, "What banged and what made it bang?"
Post by Kilmir
To quote the famous Hitchickers Guide: the answer is 42. Now all you
need is the question.
The question is the most simple and most complex question that I know.
It is even difficult to be sure at what time a train or a plane
arrives precisely, so it is a waste of time to speculate over issues
that are well outside our intelligence.
Lets heat our brain instead imagining a way we can achieve the nuclear
fusion of deuterium-tritium, for the oil will be soon exhausted.
If by the time the oil will be exhausted we had not found a solution
to the great amounts of energy we are wasting we all are doom to die
of starvation. For the cheap food that feeds our nearly seven
billion people will be gone forever. So forget the fucking god, and
the fucking big bang and start to work on something serious.
leopoldo
Geode
2009-01-07 18:43:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kilmir
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang?  Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything?  What caused the big bang?
Are we just a firecracker that went off in the night?
My atheistic friends invariably answer 1or 2 ways. The ever popular
"the big bang WAS the beginning, and we can't know anything before
it".
This leaves the curious part of my mind cold... What? We aren't even
ALLOWED
to ask this question?  If it's the 'clowniverse', where it's a big
bang followed trillions
of years later by a big crunch, then what started THAT?  If it's the
'monkeyverse', or
and infinite number of universes..... What started THAT?
I've read many, many books on the subject. They have no answer for me
either.
The best answer I've gotten has been (paraphrased), (quantum tunneling
through
a scalar field caused the big bang".  Well, that doesn't get my dick
hard either.
Now, I still don't believe in god. The reason?  Because the 'god
squad' knows nothing
either.  They take the easy way out and just chalk it all up to
'god'.  That's no better, and
no worse that the 'flying spaggetti monster' answer.
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
My current understanding is that a quantum event caused the big bang.
The big bang is pretty much nothingness splitting apart. As a result
the sum of all the forces in the universe together should be 0.
Currently if we add all known forces we come out negative, this
discrepancy is what is often refered to as "dark matter". It should be
around but we can't see it. Yet.
The initial quantum event pretty much "just happened". Also understand
that time itself started with the big bang so there is no "before" and
causality is actually a moot point in those circumstances. Warping
your head around subjects like those can be quite a challenge.
The main problem with the "start of it all" is not the event itself,
but understanding what it actually is you're asking.
To quote the famous Hitchickers Guide: the answer is 42. Now all you
need is the question.
it is of not much profit to think so much about thinks we cannot know
or even understand. The fuck all this about the big bang and the the
gawds creators, and all that crap. Lets go to fetch a glass and drink
a little wine.
leopoldo
Country Bumpkin Tom
2009-01-09 11:19:53 UTC
Permalink
You'd probably have to ask Dick Cheney his theory as to what started it
all. He knows about big sudden bangs and all of a sudden you've got
something sprayed around and unbelievable stuff happening he can't even
explain.

As to those who believe one way or another, let each go in peace build
peace, negotiate peace. As to the Gaza strip, they've been fighting
over that worthless pile of dirt for thousands of years and probably
will for thousands more. GWB is trying to turn Iraq into a democracy?
All those religions and sects? He is a moron to think he could do that
while alienating the free world from the USA. It won't happen in our
lifetime. We are so yet not evolved to understand peace is the answer,
live and let live. Imagine all the people, of our little world living
in peace? Stop being the bully of the world and being a major goof like
Rumsfeld, Rice and Cheney.
slide
2009-01-07 15:37:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang? Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything? What caused the big bang?
We don't know nor do we pretend to know. What we also don't do is to
make up fairy tales which have no basis in fact to cover up our espoused
ignorance.
duke
2009-01-08 13:21:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by slide
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang? Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything? What caused the big bang?
We don't know nor do we pretend to know.
We believe.

The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
HVAC
2009-01-08 16:53:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by slide
We don't know nor do we pretend to know.
We believe.
Exactly.
duke
2009-01-08 17:11:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
Post by duke
Post by slide
We don't know nor do we pretend to know.
We believe.
Exactly.
And you don't, despite all the evidence.

The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
HVAC
2009-01-08 18:09:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
Post by duke
Post by slide
We don't know nor do we pretend to know.
We believe.
Exactly.
And you don't, despite all the evidence.
Correct. I don't believe because of ALL the evidence.
duke
2009-01-08 21:15:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
Post by duke
Post by HVAC
Post by duke
Post by slide
We don't know nor do we pretend to know.
We believe.
Exactly.
And you don't, despite all the evidence.
Correct. I don't believe because of ALL the evidence.
Strange approach, but then again, you're a strange dude.


The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Country Bumpkin Tom
2009-01-09 12:24:37 UTC
Permalink
What caused the Big Bang is under a lot of investigation. It was very
high tech for the time would be my guess and we have to take what's left
and try to live off the crumbs out there from it. We're just a tiny
crumb as an earthling really in the millions and billions out there. I
hope we don't destroy ourselves. We're so close to that it seems. So
silly and pointless.
A. Riley
2009-01-10 04:40:46 UTC
Permalink
BIG BANG yup GOD did it.....

HE CREATED THE UNIVERSE and SAID "BANG" There ya' go ok LOL
Geode
2009-01-10 09:45:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by A. Riley
BIG BANG yup GOD did it.....
HE  CREATED THE UNIVERSE and SAID "BANG" There ya' go ok LOL
you say Lord Krisna did it? Perhaps it was the Lord Krisna.
leopoldo
thomas p.
2009-01-07 15:43:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang? Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything? What caused the big bang?
Why ask atheists? Why would it be troubling for atheists, and why should
atheists be likely to have an answer?

snip
Yap
2009-01-08 08:04:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang?  Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything?  What caused the big bang?
Why ask atheists?  Why would it be troubling for atheists, and why should
atheists be likely to have an answer?
snip
Does HVAC know exactly what his great grandparent had done?
He knows that no body can tell, when the beginning of this universe is
for no body to know since the stars were not even born.
If god did it, where did the god come from?
**Bigstick**
2009-01-07 16:02:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang? Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything? What caused the big bang?
Have you ever considered that "it" has always been here?
As humans we can only relate to a Beginning and an End to Everything we know
and see.
This is our flaw. We are born and We die ... so therefore everything else we
know must be the same.

"It" has no Beginning nor End.
"It" has always been and always will be.

Cool, huh?

I hope this helps.
Take care.
--
"Spreading a little of my special sunshine throughout usenet hell."
-codethis
duke
2009-01-08 13:29:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by **Bigstick**
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang? Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything? What caused the big bang?
Have you ever considered that "it" has always been here?
Wow, existence without creation.

The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
A. Riley
2009-01-09 03:31:19 UTC
Permalink
Greetings Friends and HUmans and YOU.

DID YOU KNOW, THAT "GOD" THE CREATOR, OF "ALL" THINGS PAST, PRESENT, and
FUTURE even Created ATHEISTS.

I believe GOD controls ALL.

One of these days The Almighty GOD is going to show HIS Powers to The
Universe. HE shows HIS powers everyday via The SUN and GRAVITY Forces.

"GOD -is- LOVE" =+=
chibiabos
2009-01-07 17:30:22 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
Me, too.
Post by HVAC
The big bang? Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything? What caused the big bang?
I understand you, brother.
Post by HVAC
Are we just a firecracker that went off in the night?
My atheistic friends invariably answer 1or 2 ways. The ever popular
"the big bang WAS the beginning, and we can't know anything before
it".
This leaves the curious part of my mind cold... What? We aren't even
ALLOWED to ask this question? If it's the 'clowniverse', where it's
a big bang followed trillions of years later by a big crunch, then
what started THAT? If it's the 'monkeyverse', or and infinite number
of universes..... What started THAT?
No. Ask. Ask a lot of questions. Just be careful that you aren't
deluding yourself with the answers.
Post by HVAC
I've read many, many books on the subject. They have no answer for me
either. The best answer I've gotten has been (paraphrased), (quantum
tunneling through a scalar field caused the big bang". Well, that
doesn't get my dick hard either.
Now, I still don't believe in god. The reason? Because the 'god
squad' knows nothing either. They take the easy way out and just
chalk it all up to 'god'. That's no better, and no worse that the
'flying spaggetti monster' answer.
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
That's the right answer.

-chib
--
Member of SMASH
Sarcastic Middle-Aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
Geode
2009-01-07 19:00:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by chibiabos
In article
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
Me, too.
Post by HVAC
The big bang?  Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything?  What caused the big bang?
I understand you, brother.
Post by HVAC
Are we just a firecracker that went off in the night?
My atheistic friends invariably answer 1or 2 ways. The ever popular
"the big bang WAS the beginning, and we can't know anything before
it".
This leaves the curious part of my mind cold... What? We aren't even
ALLOWED to ask this question?  If it's the 'clowniverse', where it's
a big bang followed trillions of years later by a big crunch, then
what started THAT?  If it's the 'monkeyverse', or and infinite number
of universes..... What started THAT?
No. Ask. Ask a lot of questions. Just be careful that you aren't
deluding yourself with the answers.
Post by HVAC
I've read many, many books on the subject. They have no answer for me
either. The best answer I've gotten has been (paraphrased), (quantum
tunneling through a scalar field caused the big bang".  Well, that
doesn't get my dick hard either.
Now, I still don't believe in god. The reason?  Because the 'god
squad' knows nothing either.  They take the easy way out and just
chalk it all up to 'god'.  That's no better, and no worse that the
'flying spaggetti monster' answer.
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
That's the right answer.
that is, we have not fucking idea. So let's move to another question.
leopoldo
Post by chibiabos
-chib
--
Member of SMASH
Sarcastic Middle-Aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
chibiabos
2009-01-07 19:36:41 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by Geode
Post by chibiabos
In article
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
Me, too.
Post by HVAC
The big bang?  Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything?  What caused the big bang?
I understand you, brother.
Post by HVAC
Are we just a firecracker that went off in the night?
My atheistic friends invariably answer 1or 2 ways. The ever popular
"the big bang WAS the beginning, and we can't know anything before
it".
This leaves the curious part of my mind cold... What? We aren't even
ALLOWED to ask this question?  If it's the 'clowniverse', where it's
a big bang followed trillions of years later by a big crunch, then
what started THAT?  If it's the 'monkeyverse', or and infinite number
of universes..... What started THAT?
No. Ask. Ask a lot of questions. Just be careful that you aren't
deluding yourself with the answers.
Post by HVAC
I've read many, many books on the subject. They have no answer for me
either. The best answer I've gotten has been (paraphrased), (quantum
tunneling through a scalar field caused the big bang".  Well, that
doesn't get my dick hard either.
Now, I still don't believe in god. The reason?  Because the 'god
squad' knows nothing either.  They take the easy way out and just
chalk it all up to 'god'.  That's no better, and no worse that the
'flying spaggetti monster' answer.
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
That's the right answer.
that is, we have not fucking idea. So let's move to another question.
leopoldo
What's wrong with tackling the hard ones?

-chib
--
Member of SMASH
Sarcastic Middle-Aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
Geode
2009-01-07 22:05:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by chibiabos
In article
Post by Geode
Post by chibiabos
In article
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
Me, too.
Post by HVAC
The big bang?  Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything?  What caused the big bang?
I understand you, brother.
Post by HVAC
Are we just a firecracker that went off in the night?
My atheistic friends invariably answer 1or 2 ways. The ever popular
"the big bang WAS the beginning, and we can't know anything before
it".
This leaves the curious part of my mind cold... What? We aren't even
ALLOWED to ask this question?  If it's the 'clowniverse', where it's
a big bang followed trillions of years later by a big crunch, then
what started THAT?  If it's the 'monkeyverse', or and infinite number
of universes..... What started THAT?
No. Ask. Ask a lot of questions. Just be careful that you aren't
deluding yourself with the answers.
Post by HVAC
I've read many, many books on the subject. They have no answer for me
either. The best answer I've gotten has been (paraphrased), (quantum
tunneling through a scalar field caused the big bang".  Well, that
doesn't get my dick hard either.
Now, I still don't believe in god. The reason?  Because the 'god
squad' knows nothing either.  They take the easy way out and just
chalk it all up to 'god'.  That's no better, and no worse that the
'flying spaggetti monster' answer.
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
That's the right answer.
that is, we have not fucking idea. So let's move to another question.
leopoldo
What's wrong with tackling the hard ones?
The hard ones? If there is only a question of doing a silly
speculation, well it is nothing. Just a waste of time, like
commenting the football
or talking about movies or literature. One has to know his
limitations in regard to his intelligence. So to chat nonsense about
things that far off our knowledge is a waste of time and resources. It
is a pity.
leopoldo
Post by chibiabos
-chib
--
Member of SMASH
Sarcastic Middle-Aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
HVAC
2009-01-07 23:41:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by chibiabos
What's wrong with tackling the hard ones?
The hard ones? If there is only a question of doing a silly
speculation, well it is nothing. Just a waste of time, like
commenting the football
or talking about movies or literature. One has to know his
limitations in regard to his intelligence. So to chat nonsense about
things that far off our knowledge is a waste of time and resources. It
is a pity.





Searching for truth is NEVER a waste of time.
Even if people say that there is no answer.
Yap
2009-01-08 08:16:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by chibiabos
What's wrong with tackling the hard ones?
The hard ones?  If there is only a question of doing a silly
speculation, well it is nothing.  Just a waste of time, like
commenting the football
or talking about movies or literature.  One has to know his
limitations in regard to his intelligence.  So to chat nonsense about
things that far off our knowledge is a waste of time and resources. It
is a pity.
Searching for truth is NEVER a waste of time.
Even if people say that there is no answer.
But aren't you intelligent enough to know that we can't know yet?
Who is your 3rd cousin would be a more pressing and important question?
Geode
2009-01-08 11:19:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by chibiabos
What's wrong with tackling the hard ones?
The hard ones?  If there is only a question of doing a silly
speculation, well it is nothing.  Just a waste of time, like
commenting the football
or talking about movies or literature.  One has to know his
limitations in regard to his intelligence.  So to chat nonsense about
things that far off our knowledge is a waste of time and resources. It
is a pity.
Searching for truth is NEVER a waste of time.
Even if people say that there is no answer.
"searching for TRUTH" are you saying? What the fuck is this?
You cannot distinguish the difference between "a truth" and your own
excrements.
leopoldo
chibiabos
2009-01-08 04:49:23 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by Geode
Post by chibiabos
What's wrong with tackling the hard ones?
The hard ones? If there is only a question of doing a silly
speculation, well it is nothing. Just a waste of time, like
commenting the football
or talking about movies or literature. One has to know his
limitations in regard to his intelligence. So to chat nonsense about
things that far off our knowledge is a waste of time and resources. It
is a pity.
leopoldo
If everyone had that attitude we'd still be making fire by rubbing two
sticks together.

-chib
--
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
Yap
2009-01-08 08:21:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by chibiabos
In article
Post by chibiabos
What's wrong with tackling the hard ones?
The hard ones?  If there is only a question of doing a silly
speculation, well it is nothing.  Just a waste of time, like
commenting the football
or talking about movies or literature.  One has to know his
limitations in regard to his intelligence.  So to chat nonsense about
things that far off our knowledge is a waste of time and resources. It
is a pity.
leopoldo
If everyone had that attitude we'd still be making fire by rubbing two
sticks together.
No.
Things advanced and progressed stepwise, due to human intelligence.
But, HVAC is jumping back billions of years when no stars were born
yet but expect answers.
Post by chibiabos
-chib
--
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
Geode
2009-01-08 11:25:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by chibiabos
In article
Post by chibiabos
What's wrong with tackling the hard ones?
The hard ones?  If there is only a question of doing a silly
speculation, well it is nothing.  Just a waste of time, like
commenting the football
or talking about movies or literature.  One has to know his
limitations in regard to his intelligence.  So to chat nonsense about
things that far off our knowledge is a waste of time and resources. It
is a pity.
leopoldo
If everyone had that attitude we'd still be making fire by rubbing two
sticks together.
Yeah, the ancient philosophers with their obsession for verbal
speculations invented the fire, and the wheel, and agriculture, and
the iron metallurgy, and the ships, and navigation, and maths, and
painting, and all the rest. By the act of philosophizing they
invented nothing, but a heat of verbal shit. You, the religious nuts,
are but a bunch of quacks, always bent on quacking. I mean idle
chattering.
leopoldo
Post by chibiabos
-chib
--
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
chibiabos
2009-01-08 14:02:09 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by Geode
Post by chibiabos
In article
Post by chibiabos
What's wrong with tackling the hard ones?
The hard ones?  If there is only a question of doing a silly
speculation, well it is nothing.  Just a waste of time, like
commenting the football
or talking about movies or literature.  One has to know his
limitations in regard to his intelligence.  So to chat nonsense about
things that far off our knowledge is a waste of time and resources. It
is a pity.
leopoldo
If everyone had that attitude we'd still be making fire by rubbing two
sticks together.
Yeah, the ancient philosophers with their obsession for verbal
speculations invented the fire, and the wheel, and agriculture, and
the iron metallurgy, and the ships, and navigation, and maths, and
painting, and all the rest. By the act of philosophizing they
invented nothing, but a heat of verbal shit. You, the religious nuts,
are but a bunch of quacks, always bent on quacking. I mean idle
chattering.
The nature of learning is to ask questions then seek answers. The
answers to some questions may be unknowable, but by not asking, we'll
never know one way or the other.

It's not just the province of philosophers to do this. Human
civilization and science in particular has advanced by asking questions
about the world around us. By doing so we've got a pretty good handle
on things going all the way back to the big bang, and more mundane
things like how to cure disease and chat on Usenet.

You seem to think it is pointless to ask questions like, "What happened
before the big bang?" and "Why is there anything at all?" I don't. I
think they are perfectly valid questions and, more to your point, not
just idle chattering, religious quackery, or lofty cerebral exercises
any more.

Asking questions like these may indeed be pointless (that is, I may be
wrong), but not asking them keeps us ignorant, like folks who think the
only way to make fire is by rubbing two sticks together.

-chib
--
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
Geode
2009-01-08 23:18:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by chibiabos
In article
Post by Geode
Post by chibiabos
In article
Post by chibiabos
What's wrong with tackling the hard ones?
The hard ones?  If there is only a question of doing a silly
speculation, well it is nothing.  Just a waste of time, like
commenting the football
or talking about movies or literature.  One has to know his
limitations in regard to his intelligence.  So to chat nonsense about
things that far off our knowledge is a waste of time and resources. It
is a pity.
leopoldo
If everyone had that attitude we'd still be making fire by rubbing two
sticks together.
Yeah, the ancient philosophers with their obsession for verbal
speculations  invented the fire, and the wheel, and agriculture, and
the iron metallurgy, and the ships, and navigation, and maths, and
painting, and all the rest.  By the act of philosophizing they
invented nothing, but a heat of verbal shit.  You, the religious nuts,
are but a bunch of quacks, always bent on quacking.   I mean idle
chattering.
The nature of learning is to ask questions then seek answers. The
answers to some questions may be unknowable, but by not asking, we'll
never know one way or the other.
It's not just the province of philosophers to do this. Human
civilization and science in particular has advanced by asking questions
about the world around us. By doing so we've got a pretty good handle
on things going all the way back to the big bang, and more mundane
things like how to cure disease and chat on Usenet.
You seem to think it is pointless to ask questions like, "What happened
before the big bang?" and "Why is there anything at all?" I don't. I
think they are perfectly valid questions and, more to your point, not
just idle chattering, religious quackery, or lofty cerebral exercises
any more.
Asking questions like these may indeed be pointless (that is, I may be
wrong), but not asking them keeps us ignorant, like folks who think the
only way to make fire is by rubbing two sticks together.
-chib
To me these exercises looked pointless, because we have not any
knowledge to speculate on this stuff. It is not like to argue about
quantum dynamics, or about a concrete problem about a star, or
something. In these problems we try to use our knowledge of physics
that came to us from laboratory experiments and mathematical
reasoning. But we have not any way to speculate about the big bang,
before or just after the bang. Just doing that is like we were
Plato and his friends argumenting about the origins of nature. Pure
nonsense.
leopoldo
Post by chibiabos
--
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
Geode
2009-01-07 18:40:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang?  Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything?  What caused the big bang?
Are we just a firecracker that went off in the night?
My atheistic friends invariably answer 1or 2 ways. The ever popular
"the big bang WAS the beginning, and we can't know anything before
it".
This leaves the curious part of my mind cold... What? We aren't even
ALLOWED
to ask this question?  If it's the 'clowniverse', where it's a big
bang followed trillions
of years later by a big crunch, then what started THAT?  If it's the
'monkeyverse', or
and infinite number of universes..... What started THAT?
I've read many, many books on the subject. They have no answer for me
either.
The best answer I've gotten has been (paraphrased), (quantum tunneling
through
a scalar field caused the big bang".  Well, that doesn't get my dick
hard either.
Now, I still don't believe in god. The reason?  Because the 'god
squad' knows nothing
either.  They take the easy way out and just chalk it all up to
'god'.  That's no better, and
no worse that the 'flying spaggetti monster' answer.
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
there is a saying about the Universe being of the greatest complexity,
and that is why there is a need to explaine the Universe by means of
God creator and all that. But Dawkins, the great atheist, says... if
a thing of great complexity needs a far superior being, then this
superior being can not be imagined with a another entity, of much more
complexity still than god. And then, so and so, this one needs another
being of much more bigger complexity and all the shit.
that's all.
leopoldo
p***@worldonline.nl
2009-01-07 18:41:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang?  Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything?  What caused the big bang?
Are we just a firecracker that went off in the night?
My atheistic friends invariably answer 1or 2 ways. The ever popular
"the big bang WAS the beginning, and we can't know anything before
it".
This leaves the curious part of my mind cold... What? We aren't even
ALLOWED
to ask this question?  If it's the 'clowniverse', where it's a big
bang followed trillions
of years later by a big crunch, then what started THAT?  If it's the
'monkeyverse', or
and infinite number of universes..... What started THAT?
I've read many, many books on the subject. They have no answer for me
either.
The best answer I've gotten has been (paraphrased), (quantum tunneling
through
a scalar field caused the big bang".  Well, that doesn't get my dick
hard either.
Now, I still don't believe in god. The reason?  Because the 'god
squad' knows nothing
either.  They take the easy way out and just chalk it all up to
'god'.  That's no better, and
no worse that the 'flying spaggetti monster' answer.
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
OK I will give you my version

If the matter we can now see in the universe was allready present at
"the big bang"
then up to 300 million years later it was no more the 300 miilion
lightyears away from us. That ment it was inside a volume smaller then
the schwarschild radius for such a mass, and the escape velocity from
that mass at it's edges was greater then the speed of light.

Hence the universe had all the ne3scessary properties of a black hole.
But if the universe is a black hole then it shoul still ber growing
As more matter falls into it, it schwarschild radius expands. Thus in
inflates.

So all the matter within this unniverse came from outside it,
The Big bang really ws a big Crunch, but seen from inside.
The black hole inside out Galaxy may one day get so big that ini will
swallow up all the matter in uor universe.

Then for us the universe will end, but inside the black hole
intelligence may yet rise.

Love,

Peter van Velzen (from cock gone my wife says) Daengprasert
January 2009
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
HVAC
2009-01-07 20:08:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
OK I will give you my version

If the matter we can now see in the universe was allready present at
"the big bang"



It was. Conservation, et al.




then up to 300 million years later it was no more the 300 miilion
lightyears away from us.




Wrong. If the current standard model is at all correct, then the
inflationary
period of our universe caused a FTL expansion. All experiments so far
have confirmed this. This also renders the rest of your post moot.





That ment it was inside a volume smaller then
the schwarschild radius for such a mass, and the escape velocity from
that mass at it's edges was greater then the speed of light.

Hence the universe had all the ne3scessary properties of a black hole.
But if the universe is a black hole then it shoul still ber growing
As more matter falls into it, it schwarschild radius expands. Thus in
inflates.

So all the matter within this unniverse came from outside it,
The Big bang really ws a big Crunch, but seen from inside.
The black hole inside out Galaxy may one day get so big that ini will
swallow up all the matter in uor universe.

Then for us the universe will end, but inside the black hole
intelligence may yet rise.

Love,

Peter van Velzen (from cock gone my wife says)



Your wife thinks your cock is gone? Bummer.
p***@worldonline.nl
2009-01-10 10:40:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@worldonline.nl
Post by HVAC
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
OK I will give you my version
If the matter we can now see in the universe was allready present at
"the big bang"
It was. Conservation, et al.
then up to 300 million years later it was no more the 300 miilion
lightyears away from us.
Wrong. If the current standard model is at all correct, then the
inflationary
period of our universe caused a FTL expansion. All experiments so far
have confirmed this.  This also renders the rest of your post moot.
That ment it was inside a volume smaller then
the schwarschild radius for such a mass, and the escape velocity from
that mass at it's edges was greater then the speed of light.
Hence the universe had all the ne3scessary properties of a black hole.
But if  the universe is a black hole then it shoul still ber growing
As more matter falls into it, it schwarschild radius expands. Thus in
inflates.
So all the matter within this unniverse came from outside it,
The Big bang really ws a big Crunch, but seen from inside.
The black hole inside out Galaxy may one day get so big that ini will
swallow up all the matter in uor universe.
Then for us the universe will end, but inside the black hole
intelligence may yet rise.
Love,
Peter van Velzen (from cock gone my wife says)
Your wife thinks your cock is gone?   Bummer.
No, she threathens that will happen if I fuck around!
As I have no such intentions I always laugh when she says that.

Noticed you didn't react to the contence of my post though . . . . .

Love,

Peter van Velzen Daengprasert
January 2009
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
duke
2009-01-08 13:27:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@worldonline.nl
OK I will give you my version
If the matter we can now see in the universe was allready present at
"the big bang"
then up to 300 million years later it was no more the 300 miilion
lightyears away from us. That ment it was inside a volume smaller then
the schwarschild radius for such a mass, and the escape velocity from
that mass at it's edges was greater then the speed of light.
Ah, God's work. But you forgot the schwarschild radius also included all
energy also.

The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
p***@worldonline.nl
2009-01-10 10:44:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@worldonline.nl
OK I will give you my version
If the matter we can now see in the universe was allready present at
"the big bang"
then up to 300 million years later it was no more the 300 miilion
lightyears away from us. That ment it was inside a volume smaller then
the schwarschild radius for such a mass, and the escape velocity from
that mass at it's edges was greater then the speed of light.
Ah, God's work.   But you forgot the schwarschild radius also included all
energy also.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
As usual when you do not understand it, you blame god.
As for the energy, I suppose you are right about that.
Beware Duke! Your brain starts working!

Love,

Peter van Velzen
January 2009
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
v***@inreach.com
2009-01-07 20:24:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang?  Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything?  What caused the big bang?
<snip>
Post by HVAC
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
There you go, you answered your own question.

--
Uncle Vic
2011
Douglas E. Berry
2009-01-07 22:22:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang?  Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything?  What caused the big bang?
We don't know. Cosmologists are working very hard to model the last
few picoseconds where the laws of physics breakdown to understand what
caused the event commonly called the Big Bang. We may never be able to
figure out the precise cause, but the search is teaching us a great
deal.

Who knows, maybe it was some guy in a white robe saying "Are you ready
to ruuuummmbbbleeee!!!!"

One of the more intriguing (not to mention mindbreaking) theories I've
read is that the big bang was the creation of a black hole in another
universe. Which means that all the black holes created in our universe
created universes of their own. Since things like time break down
inside the radius of a black hole, we could be part of a swirling,
multiversal mass of self reinforcing universes.

Want to stare at the ceiling all night? Ask yourself how *that* got
started.

Doug Berry
***@gmail.com
HVAC
2009-01-07 23:50:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang? Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything? What caused the big bang?
We don't know. Cosmologists are working very hard to model the last
few picoseconds where the laws of physics breakdown to understand what
caused the event commonly called the Big Bang. We may never be able to
figure out the precise cause, but the search is teaching us a great
deal.

Who knows, maybe it was some guy in a white robe saying "Are you ready
to ruuuummmbbbleeee!!!!"

One of the more intriguing (not to mention mindbreaking) theories I've
read is that the big bang was the creation of a black hole in another
universe. Which means that all the black holes created in our universe
created universes of their own. Since things like time break down
inside the radius of a black hole, we could be part of a swirling,
multiversal mass of self reinforcing universes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


This ain't my first time at bat.
Over here we have labeled that the 'monkeyverse'.
As in infinity. As in an infinite number of monkeys
at infinite number of typewriters, will type out
the complete text of Tom Sawyer.
It also postulates another one of YOU.




Want to stare at the ceiling all night? Ask yourself how *that* got
started.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


That's the question on the table, Doug.
Adding more universes doesn't solve anything.
duke
2009-01-08 13:24:06 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 14:22:56 -0800 (PST), "Douglas E. Berry"
Post by Douglas E. Berry
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang?  Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything?  What caused the big bang?
We don't know. Cosmologists are working very hard to model the last
few picoseconds where the laws of physics breakdown to understand what
caused the event commonly called the Big Bang. We may never be able to
figure out the precise cause, but the search is teaching us a great
deal.
Who knows, maybe it was some guy in a white robe saying "Are you ready
to ruuuummmbbbleeee!!!!"
One of the more intriguing (not to mention mindbreaking) theories I've
read is that the big bang was the creation of a black hole in another
universe. Which means that all the black holes created in our universe
created universes of their own. Since things like time break down
inside the radius of a black hole, we could be part of a swirling,
multiversal mass of self reinforcing universes.
Want to stare at the ceiling all night? Ask yourself how *that* got
started.
God.


The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Country Bumpkin Tom
2009-01-09 13:00:09 UTC
Permalink
Yes, my favorite song is " Hello Walls." .................
Hello Windows, Hello Ceiling, how'd it go for you tonight? Answers I
still do not have either. I'm just guessing as always. ;O)
Hagar
2009-01-07 23:18:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang? Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything? What caused the big bang?
We Atheists do not, contrary to the implication, have a hard time with the
Big Bang. It is, after all, a Theory, and quite possible the most plausible
of all the whacko ideas which are bandied about on the tube and in
establishments of higher learning. Science will eventually figure it all
out, but the fact that we don't know for sure doesn't drive us into a
religious frenzy. We do not HAVE to know the answer right this minute. As
Atheists, we ponder the available option, then pop a beer and devote our
energies to more important issues, such as the next paycheck.

HTH
duke
2009-01-08 13:28:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hagar
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang? Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything? What caused the big bang?
We Atheists do not, contrary to the implication, have a hard time with the
Big Bang. It is, after all, a Theory, and quite possible the most plausible
of all the whacko ideas which are bandied about on the tube and in
establishments of higher learning.
Call it the big bang or the big banana - it doesn't matter. God did it.

The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Alex W.
2009-01-07 23:59:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
For you, perhaps, but not for me.
I do not need answers for everything.
If and when I want an answer, I require it to be
well-founded and sensible.
Above all, I place my trust in science to provide an answer
in the fullness of time.
Country Bumpkin Tom
2009-01-09 13:11:06 UTC
Permalink
Well. I guess as with bible interpretations, belief and thumping, many
are self proclaimed experts. The truth of the matter is, we're just a
spec of dust as a race on earth in time, a sperm and an egg that
fertilized as a mammal here on earth. An asteroid or a chunk of the
moon hits us hard in our oceans and drowns us all. And the next
millions of years, they look at us like we do the dinos and they ask
too... What happened? Nobody really has anything nailed down as to
beginning and end. Just enjoy life as best you can. We won't get out
of it alive.
John Locke
2009-01-08 07:12:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang? Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything? What caused the big bang?
...well, that's a tough one. Science does not yet have the answers
but there some good ideas developing.

Some of the current thinking is positioned at eliminating the
singularity in favor of some form of transitional event linked to
collapse of a previous universe or possibly to the collision of
floating membranes in an extra dimensional environment.

To ascribe "God" as a factor in an event that we
don't yet understand is delusional and undermines the
process of scientific research.

Science will find the answers. It just takes time, hard work
and patience. "God did it" dosen't cut the mustard.





___________________________________________________

"The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those
who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find
compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others."

Bertrand Russell (1872-1970), British philosopher.
duke
2009-01-08 13:24:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Locke
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang? Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything? What caused the big bang?
...well, that's a tough one. Science does not yet have the answers
but there some good ideas developing.
Some of the current thinking is positioned at eliminating the
singularity in favor of some form of transitional event linked to
collapse of a previous universe or possibly to the collision of
floating membranes in an extra dimensional environment.
To ascribe "God" as a factor in an event that we
don't yet understand is delusional and undermines the
process of scientific research.
Science will find the answers. It just takes time, hard work
and patience. "God did it" dosen't cut the mustard.
Makes more sense than "existence without creation".

The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Bob T.
2009-01-08 14:11:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by John Locke
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang?  Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything?  What caused the big bang?
...well, that's a tough one. Science does not yet have the answers
but there some good ideas developing.
Some of the current thinking is positioned at eliminating the
singularity in favor of some form of transitional event linked to
collapse of a previous universe or possibly to the collision of
floating membranes in an extra dimensional environment.
To ascribe "God" as a factor in an event that we
don't yet understand is delusional and undermines the
process of scientific research.
Science will find the answers. It just takes time, hard work
and patience.  "God did it" dosen't cut the mustard.
Makes more sense than "existence without creation".
Does God exist? Was God created? Didn't you just contradict your own
religion?

- Bob T.
Post by duke
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
duke
2009-01-08 17:13:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob T.
Post by duke
Post by John Locke
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang?  Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything?  What caused the big bang?
...well, that's a tough one. Science does not yet have the answers
but there some good ideas developing.
Some of the current thinking is positioned at eliminating the
singularity in favor of some form of transitional event linked to
collapse of a previous universe or possibly to the collision of
floating membranes in an extra dimensional environment.
To ascribe "God" as a factor in an event that we
don't yet understand is delusional and undermines the
process of scientific research.
Science will find the answers. It just takes time, hard work
and patience.  "God did it" dosen't cut the mustard.
Makes more sense than "existence without creation".
Does God exist? Was God created? Didn't you just contradict your own
religion?
Yes, I don't know, no - my 3 answers.

The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Yap
2009-01-08 07:49:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang?  Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything?  What caused the big bang?
Are we just a firecracker that went off in the night?
My atheistic friends invariably answer 1or 2 ways. The ever popular
"the big bang WAS the beginning, and we can't know anything before
it".
This leaves the curious part of my mind cold... What? We aren't even
ALLOWED
to ask this question?  If it's the 'clowniverse', where it's a big
bang followed trillions
of years later by a big crunch, then what started THAT?  If it's the
'monkeyverse', or
and infinite number of universes..... What started THAT?
I've read many, many books on the subject. They have no answer for me
either.
The best answer I've gotten has been (paraphrased), (quantum tunneling
through
a scalar field caused the big bang".  Well, that doesn't get my dick
hard either.
Now, I still don't believe in god. The reason?  Because the 'god
squad' knows nothing
either.  They take the easy way out and just chalk it all up to
'god'.  That's no better, and
no worse that the 'flying spaggetti monster' answer.
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
When is the exact date? What happened? What condition caused the big
bang? etc etc.....
Science is doing the work, you ain't going to get any answer in a
thousand years yet...be happy and live a worthwhile life, do something
positive, not something crazily negative like all loons.
Dr P
2009-01-08 13:45:29 UTC
Permalink
In message
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang? Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything? What caused the big bang?
Are we just a firecracker that went off in the night?
My atheistic friends invariably answer 1or 2 ways. The ever popular
"the big bang WAS the beginning, and we can't know anything before
it".
This leaves the curious part of my mind cold... What? We aren't even
ALLOWED
to ask this question? If it's the 'clowniverse', where it's a big
bang followed trillions
of years later by a big crunch, then what started THAT? If it's the
'monkeyverse', or
and infinite number of universes..... What started THAT?
I've read many, many books on the subject. They have no answer for me
either.
The best answer I've gotten has been (paraphrased), (quantum tunneling
through
a scalar field caused the big bang". Well, that doesn't get my dick
hard either.
Now, I still don't believe in god. The reason? Because the 'god
squad' knows nothing
either. They take the easy way out and just chalk it all up to
'god'. That's no better, and
no worse that the 'flying spaggetti monster' answer.
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
it's all a puzzle. if we knew what started it all, the next question is
what started that. each answer paves the way for the next identical
question.

i've got some idiot friends who say humans were created by aliens. that
only moves the goal posts to 'who created them?'

dr p
Geode
2009-01-08 23:09:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr P
In message
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang?  Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything?  What caused the big bang?
Are we just a firecracker that went off in the night?
My atheistic friends invariably answer 1or 2 ways. The ever popular
"the big bang WAS the beginning, and we can't know anything before
it".
This leaves the curious part of my mind cold... What? We aren't even
ALLOWED
to ask this question?  If it's the 'clowniverse', where it's a big
bang followed trillions
of years later by a big crunch, then what started THAT?  If it's the
'monkeyverse', or
and infinite number of universes..... What started THAT?
I've read many, many books on the subject. They have no answer for me
either.
The best answer I've gotten has been (paraphrased), (quantum tunneling
through
a scalar field caused the big bang".  Well, that doesn't get my dick
hard either.
Now, I still don't believe in god. The reason?  Because the 'god
squad' knows nothing
either.  They take the easy way out and just chalk it all up to
'god'.  That's no better, and
no worse that the 'flying spaggetti monster' answer.
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
it's all a puzzle. if we knew what started it all, the next question is
what started that. each answer paves the way for the next identical
question.
i've got some idiot friends who say humans were created by aliens. that
only moves the goal posts to 'who created them?'
dr p
if we cannot explain the Universe existence, then we cannot explain
either the existence of a god. Why is there a god? We made it? How
the creator god came to have an existence? I know that people say it
is eternal. But how we know god is eternal? The universe we thing we
are observing, whatever it is, came out in a big bang, as they say.
But that does not mean that before the big bang this universe in a
sort of way did not exit. It was somewhere in a point without
dimensions, before coming out in the putative explosion. In any case,
even the big bang is nothing but a comological speculation.
The case is that "if we do not need to explain the cause for the
existence of a god, 'cause it is eternal", we neither need it to
explain the Universe. Because Universe did not come out of nowhere, or
out of nothing. It is also eternal, but not in the form that observed
at present.
The Universe is out there around us; and we have a theory that
postulates that it came out from a big explosion. This do not mean
that it was created at all. It just came out from a singular
unknowable point in space.
leopoldo
Dr P
2009-01-09 18:38:34 UTC
Permalink
In message
Post by Geode
Post by Dr P
In message
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang?  Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything?  What caused the big bang?
Are we just a firecracker that went off in the night?
My atheistic friends invariably answer 1or 2 ways. The ever popular
"the big bang WAS the beginning, and we can't know anything before
it".
This leaves the curious part of my mind cold... What? We aren't even
ALLOWED
to ask this question?  If it's the 'clowniverse', where it's a big
bang followed trillions
of years later by a big crunch, then what started THAT?  If it's the
'monkeyverse', or
and infinite number of universes..... What started THAT?
I've read many, many books on the subject. They have no answer for me
either.
The best answer I've gotten has been (paraphrased), (quantum tunneling
through
a scalar field caused the big bang".  Well, that doesn't get my dick
hard either.
Now, I still don't believe in god. The reason?  Because the 'god
squad' knows nothing
either.  They take the easy way out and just chalk it all up to
'god'.  That's no better, and
no worse that the 'flying spaggetti monster' answer.
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
it's all a puzzle. if we knew what started it all, the next question is
what started that. each answer paves the way for the next identical
question.
i've got some idiot friends who say humans were created by aliens. that
only moves the goal posts to 'who created them?'
dr p
if we cannot explain the Universe existence, then we cannot explain
either the existence of a god. Why is there a god? We made it? How
the creator god came to have an existence? I know that people say it
is eternal. But how we know god is eternal? The universe we thing we
are observing, whatever it is, came out in a big bang, as they say.
But that does not mean that before the big bang this universe in a
sort of way did not exit. It was somewhere in a point without
dimensions, before coming out in the putative explosion. In any case,
even the big bang is nothing but a comological speculation.
The case is that "if we do not need to explain the cause for the
existence of a god, 'cause it is eternal", we neither need it to
explain the Universe. Because Universe did not come out of nowhere, or
out of nothing. It is also eternal, but not in the form that observed
at present.
The Universe is out there around us; and we have a theory that
postulates that it came out from a big explosion. This do not mean
that it was created at all. It just came out from a singular
unknowable point in space.
leopoldo
yes, but...

i feel summat physically, therefore i wanna know where it...the
'summat'...came/comes from.

a
Post by Geode
a singular
unknowable point in space.
...is all very well but does not answer the Q in an intellectually
fulfilling or perhaps sustainable way.
--
dr p
Geode
2009-01-09 19:33:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr P
In message
Post by Geode
Post by Dr P
In message
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang?  Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything?  What caused the big bang?
Are we just a firecracker that went off in the night?
My atheistic friends invariably answer 1or 2 ways. The ever popular
"the big bang WAS the beginning, and we can't know anything before
it".
This leaves the curious part of my mind cold... What? We aren't even
ALLOWED
to ask this question?  If it's the 'clowniverse', where it's a big
bang followed trillions
of years later by a big crunch, then what started THAT?  If it's the
'monkeyverse', or
and infinite number of universes..... What started THAT?
I've read many, many books on the subject. They have no answer for me
either.
The best answer I've gotten has been (paraphrased), (quantum tunneling
through
a scalar field caused the big bang".  Well, that doesn't get my dick
hard either.
Now, I still don't believe in god. The reason?  Because the 'god
squad' knows nothing
either.  They take the easy way out and just chalk it all up to
'god'.  That's no better, and
no worse that the 'flying spaggetti monster' answer.
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
it's all a puzzle. if we knew what started it all, the next question is
what started that. each answer paves the way for the next identical
question.
i've got some idiot friends who say humans were created by aliens. that
only moves the goal posts to 'who created them?'
dr p
if we cannot explain the Universe existence, then we cannot explain
either the existence of a god.  Why is there a god?  We made it?  How
the creator god came to have an existence?  I know that people say it
is eternal.  But how we know god is eternal?  The universe we thing we
are observing, whatever it is, came out in a big bang, as they say.
But that does not mean that before the big bang this universe in a
sort of way did not exit.  It was somewhere in a point without
dimensions, before coming out in the putative explosion.  In any case,
even the big bang is nothing but a comological speculation.
The case is that "if we do not need to explain the cause for the
existence of a god, 'cause it is eternal", we neither need it to
explain the Universe. Because Universe did not come out of nowhere, or
out of nothing.  It is also eternal, but not in the form that observed
at present.
The Universe is out there around us; and we have a theory that
postulates that it came out from a big explosion.  This do not mean
that it was created at all.  It just came out from a singular
unknowable point in space.
leopoldo
yes, but...
i feel summat physically, therefore i wanna know where it...the
'summat'...came/comes from.
a
Post by Geode
a singular
unknowable point in space.
...is all very well but does not answer the Q in an intellectually
fulfilling or perhaps sustainable way.
--
dr p
ok, ok. We have too many puzzles to decipher. It does not sound to
me the best approach to tackle the most complex questions first.
There is a lot of questions we have before our eyes to solve for the
next semester and they are not any easy, anyway.
so lets rest the big bag for a while like a hundred years or so, and
concentrate on other topics that look more a few inches in front of
our noses.
leopoldo
Richard Smol
2009-01-08 16:37:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
Hmm. Nope, not troubling. Try again.

RS
MarkA
2009-01-08 16:48:46 UTC
Permalink
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me. It's... What started
it all?
The big bang? Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible) My
question is what started everything? What caused the big bang?
There are two ways to answer a question regarding the physical world:
study the available evidence, or make a wild-ass guess. For some
questions, such as, "how did the first living thing originate?", the
necessary information may no longer exist.

Consider that 90% of the Universe is made out of something we can only
detect indirectly, thru its gravitational interactions with other things
we CAN see, and that quantum mechanics and general relativity, the two
pillars of modern physics, are each exquisitely accurate in their own
domains, but completely irreconcilable with each other. Bottom line: we
know very little. There are probably things out there that we don't even
know that we don't know about.
--
MarkA
Keeper of Things Put There Only Just The Night Before
About eight o'clock
HVAC
2009-01-08 18:33:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by MarkA
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me. It's... What started
it all?
The big bang? Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible) My
question is what started everything? What caused the big bang?
Consider that 90% of the Universe is made out of something we can only
detect indirectly, thru its gravitational interactions with other things
we CAN see, and that quantum mechanics and general relativity, the two
pillars of modern physics, are each exquisitely accurate in their own
domains, but completely irreconcilable with each other. Bottom line: we
know very little. There are probably things out there that we don't even
know that we don't know about.
And that is precisely why myself and a few other free-thinkers
keep asking the questions that most people don't want to discuss.

BTW quantum physics and general relativity work if
you go from 11 dimensions instead of 10.
Cary Kittrell
2009-01-08 18:51:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
Post by MarkA
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me. It's... What started
it all?
The big bang? Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible) My
question is what started everything? What caused the big bang?
Consider that 90% of the Universe is made out of something we can only
detect indirectly, thru its gravitational interactions with other things
we CAN see, and that quantum mechanics and general relativity, the two
pillars of modern physics, are each exquisitely accurate in their own
domains, but completely irreconcilable with each other. Bottom line: we
know very little. There are probably things out there that we don't even
know that we don't know about.
And that is precisely why myself and a few other free-thinkers
keep asking the questions that most people don't want to discuss.
BTW quantum physics and general relativity work if
you go from 11 dimensions instead of 10.
Um...no. Going to an 11-dimensional theory of supergravity
from a strongly-coupled 10-dimension string-theoretical
one makes the math tractable -- you can now handle things
using perturbation techniques -- but no one claims to
have worked out either the heirarchy problem in particle
physics, nor an understanding of how gravity acts at
scales approaching the Planck length.


-- cary
HVAC
2009-01-09 14:26:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cary Kittrell
Um...no. Going to an 11-dimensional theory of supergravity
from a strongly-coupled 10-dimension string-theoretical
one makes the math tractable -- you can now handle things
using perturbation techniques -- but no one claims to
have worked out either the heirarchy problem in particle
physics, nor an understanding of how gravity acts at
scales approaching the Planck length.
Well, not yet anyway.
Loop quantum gravity seems to portend *some* answers.
Even at very small distances.
Cary Kittrell
2009-01-09 16:30:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
Post by Cary Kittrell
Um...no. Going to an 11-dimensional theory of supergravity
from a strongly-coupled 10-dimension string-theoretical
one makes the math tractable -- you can now handle things
using perturbation techniques -- but no one claims to
have worked out either the heirarchy problem in particle
physics, nor an understanding of how gravity acts at
scales approaching the Planck length.
Well, not yet anyway.
Loop quantum gravity seems to portend *some* answers.
Even at very small distances.
Sssssh. Don't tell Duke. Loop quantum gravity totally
shoots down Dookie's idea of the Big Bang, which is
his "evidence" for God.


-- cary
HVAC
2009-01-09 17:40:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cary Kittrell
Sssssh. Don't tell Duke. Loop quantum gravity totally
shoots down Dookie's idea of the Big Bang, which is
his "evidence" for God.
Fuck him.... Him and his type are doomed.
They're doomed to be Darwined out. Those
groups that can't or won't adapt to newer, more
correct scientific principles are targeted for extinction.
Evolve or die.
Budikka666
2009-01-08 20:35:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVAC
And that question is *THE* most difficult for me.
It's... What started it all?
The big bang? Yes, I understand the big bang. (as well as possible)
My question is what started everything? What caused the big bang?
Are we just a firecracker that went off in the night?
My atheistic friends invariably answer 1or 2 ways. The ever popular
"the big bang WAS the beginning, and we can't know anything before
it".
This leaves the curious part of my mind cold... What? We aren't even
ALLOWED
to ask this question? If it's the 'clowniverse', where it's a big
bang followed trillions
of years later by a big crunch, then what started THAT? If it's the
'monkeyverse', or
and infinite number of universes..... What started THAT?
I've read many, many books on the subject. They have no answer for me
either.
The best answer I've gotten has been (paraphrased), (quantum tunneling
through
a scalar field caused the big bang". Well, that doesn't get my dick
hard either.
Now, I still don't believe in god. The reason? Because the 'god
squad' knows nothing
either. They take the easy way out and just chalk it all up to
'god'. That's no better, and
no worse that the 'flying spaggetti monster' answer.
Until things are made more clear to me, I just say that I ain't got a
clue.
You evidently haven't dug deep enough. Try "Before the Beginning" by
Martin Rees, or dig into either _Discover_ magazine or _Scientific
American_ magazine's online material and see what they have to offer.
I know that one or both of them have had more than a handful of
articles on this very topic.

But the *fact* is that we don't know. We may never know. We may not
ever be able to know. There are morons who take that ignorance and
fake it into knowledge and then swear that they do know - they lie
that some god made it all, but this answers nothing.

That's why scientists never give up asking and seeking. And hiding
behind "ain't got a clue" isn't any more accurate than hiding behind a
god, because we do have some clues about what may have been. We just
don't have any solid (as opposed to theoretical) support for these
hypotheses yet.

Budikka
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